Resurrecting a Cult Classic: The Buffy Musical Onstage | Once More With Feeling | Behind the Curtain Theatre Productions

If you’ve ever wished you could step into your favourite episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Once More With Feeling by Behind the Curtain Theatre might be the next best thing. Nearing its 25th anniversary, this high-energy tribute concert to the show’s iconic musical episode brings Sunnydale’s supernatural drama and campy humour to life - fangs, flair and all. I managed to catch the show at the Cheltenham Playhouse, where audiences were encouraged to sing their way through a night of pure Buffy nostalgia.

With renewed buzz surrounding a Buffy reboot, the timing couldn’t be better. The cult classic’s fanbase, fiercely loyal and still thriving decades after the original aired, is always ready to sink its teeth into the Buffyverse, and this production hits the spot perfectly. By leaning into the fandom’s sense of community and shared nostalgia, Once More With Feeling captures exactly what makes Buffy endure: its ability to blend heart, humour, and a hint of horror in harmony.

I sat down with the show’s creative team — directors, producers, performers and all-around Buffy devotees Toni Shaw and Stephen Santouris — to talk about how they brought this fan favourite to the stage, the challenges of taking a cult TV moment on tour, and why projects like this prove that sometimes, revisiting the past can feel powerfully present.

Once More with Feeling Interview - Transcript

00:00:00

 Ruth West: How you doing?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Oh, good. Thanks. How are you?Ruth West: Yeah, not bad, thanks. I'm just going to start recording it before I inevitably forget and we're halfway through.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: No, please don't do that.Ruth West: There you go. So, I came to see you last night.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Awesome.Ruth West: I've put on my Sunny Dale hoodie and Definitely.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Nice. Really nice. God, I'm more Greenale today. I I transferred from Sunnydale to Greenale. I'm just wearing flowers. I've I've I've got a dark lipstick on. That's gothy, isn't it?Ruth West: Definitely. Where are you guys?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Oh, we're in um a venue in Chelenham called Smoky Joe's, which is where we did the majority of our rehearsals for. It's like an American themed diner, which um again just adds to the whole the whole Buffy experience.  

00:00:50

 Ruth West: I love the backdrop. It's very on point.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Cool. It' be great. can give them a bit of a shout out because they did give us very reasonable rehearsal space. Yeah.Ruth West: Nice. So, I'll tell you a little bit about me. Um, I run a freelance I am a freelancer and I run a business that basically teaches marketing skills, business skills to people in art schools because no one teaches you that if you've been to art school.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah.Ruth West: Uh, I also do consultancy for business um and marketing for arts organizations specifically and I design immersive events as well. Um, so I do a little bit of everything. Uh, I saw you guys on Tik Tok, so if you're putting money into Tik Tok, it's working. Uh but um yeah, my mate and I I'm in Birmingham, so I'm not miles away.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: We're not actually, but maybe we should. Or maybe we're all right.  

00:01:46

 Ruth West: I was like, "Oh, what are the chances that this would be on?"Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Everyone cool.Ruth West: You're like, "Well, we're never going to see it, so let's come down and see it." So that's how I found you. Um, but I've been running interviews throughout the fringe and also with a few companies since just talking about how how you got into it, how you go about managing it, and then a little bit of promo for you guys as well.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Cool. Amazing.Ruth West: Awesome. So, let's get started. Uh, if you could start by telling us a little bit about yourselves and what you guys do just individually to start with.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Okay. Um, my name's Steven Santois. Um, I am an events manager um, here at Smoky Joe's. Um, as well as, um, actor, performer, um, and director. Um, yeah, got to wear many different hats.  

00:02:36

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, and I'm Tony Shaw. I am a I work in marketing. at the Chapman Playhouse, which is a small little theater um in Chartman, funny enough. Um and then I also am a performer as well. And I like to do a bit of graphic design. Uh so all of the Buffy posters, that was me. I did that. I done that. Um and yeah, that's me and also the co-director of Behind the Curtain with this one.Ruth West: Great. Uh, what's your show about for anyone that doesn't know?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, um, we take the one musical episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We do our absolute best to try and give people as much context as possible, which is really hard when a show has already had like six and a bit seasons or something ahead of that episode. Um, and yeah, and we what we we we we screen the actual episode.  

00:03:29

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um but then anytime a musical moment may happen um we do our best to incorporate live performers.Ruth West: Awesome. What drew you to staging once more with feelings? Are you big fans? It's pretty iconic. Did you think it was a good idea? What What drew you to it?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Oh yeah, we are we're both massive fans of it and I think we both had the same kind of little idea in mind the first time we watched it which was well we we didn't even know each other and um like that was many years apart. Yeah. Um so like I think both of us had the same sort of little idea in the back of our heads the first time we watched the episode which was wouldn't it be cool to do a stage version of this? trying to get it in on a stage and mine specifically was how wouldn't it be cool to do a stage version of this and I play Anna uh specifically I play Anna um and yeah I think it was just we were having conversations you were talking because we've we've behind the curtain as well we do a number of like smaller cabaret shows which is kind of very stripped back um musical theater based and we normally have  

00:04:33

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: like themes throughout running throughout them as well so we've done like a Disney one we've done like a princess and princesses which fundamentally. It's basically a Disney one as well. Um but we were like, "Oh, what if we did a Once More with Feeling one? That'd be quite fun." Yeah. I think it was um one of our regular um performers um Joy who said like, "Oh, a Halloween themed um cabaret show should be all around Buffy." And I was like, "Well, the way we do it is is that we sort of walk up to a microphone and it's a stand and sing it moment." I was like, but without the context of the episode and the show itself, the music does stand up, but so much of it is contextual. So, we need to like fill it in. So, I'm like, okay, do we screen the episode and have people stand up and sing? And then I remembered when Tony worked at the Playhouse, I was like, well, they have a whole cinema setup and a stage in front of set cinema setup.  

00:05:25

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: That would be the ideal.Ruth West: And do you obviously it's got a really huge cult following. To those who haven't seen it, how true do you stay to the episode itself?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: we do our very best. Um there's things like, you know, um let's take um Under Your Spell for example, where that one cuts off mid song um and to a bit of a racy moment, let's say. um you know that's not something that we want to recreate on stage necessarily. So you know it's giving that song its full finish. Um same as where do we go from here? That's obviously a cut off where Spike and Buffy runs out. But again we complete that song. Um because again on stage you can't just cut a song off and cut to the next scene. That's not how it works. So there's been a lot of work of how do we make this make sense on stage.  

00:06:19

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: standing being another one that proved quite a few challenges cuz uh slow-mo weapons flying through the air is yeah proves challenging on stage. Yeah, we also kind of like added a little bit of our like own kind of sense of humor to certain songs as well. Not we don't want we're not gone too far so it kind of becomes something completely separate. We will do the songs as true as we can, but when we find when we find there is like a moment to do something funny or like a reference to the rest of the show, we're like, "Oh, we we could just put this little thing in there." And I mean, we we're constantly thinking of new ideas that we can add to it. We've already got something in the pipeline for next year. For next year. So deeply stupid, but it will be fun. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.  

00:07:06

 Ruth West: That's like the Is that where the idea for the other slayer came out of?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So at that moment in the song again um and in standing Tara um is is is researching the books and stuff for what this this this um chant that um Willow had put on her and we were like how do we do that on a stage setting when Charles is going to be singing? So yeah, that was the idea with that one. But yeah, we want to nod to as many Buffy alum characters who may have not have been in the episode, but we will find a way to shoehorn them in. It did also help that Lucy, who played the other Slayer and is also our fight coro um master for the show, looks like basically like Eliza Dushku. Yeah. Like it was uncanny. So we were thought perfect on that and a wife beat her and off we go.  

00:08:02

 Ruth West: Uh, do you find your audiences are already major Buffy fans, people from your cabaret, or are you getting a massive range of people?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Oh, I say it's definitely a range. I mean, there's been some great moments. I think it was we did it last uh Halloween um which was the first run of the show when it was in its very sort of like it was still it was still on a theater stage, but it was still like very conceptual and we were still trying to figure it out. And I think our MD Justin turned around because he's got um he's got screens into the auditorium because he's behind the screen so he can't see what's going on on stage. It's a very odd place for him to conduct. So and he just like said I think I've just seen a bunny walk through the auditorium. Yeah, there was there were three bunnies. I think I met a spike last year which ironically I was Giles then.  

00:08:51

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, no. Yeah, there's quite a few people that do do make the effort and dress up. Yes. I want to be a dark willow. That'll be the fun one. That's the one I want to meet. I want I want a full dark willow. Yes.Ruth West: noted. How How do you find that newcomers to Buffy take it? Have you had any conversations with people who have had nothing to do with the franchise and then have seen your show?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yes. Actually, I was chatting to so um our friend Alex um who's another great actor um he came to see the show um last week and he to purely to support us because he'd never watched Buffy before um and I did ask him like what did you think like did you were you able to follow it was it all did it all make sense um and he was like yeah it was so easy to understand um so right at the beginning of the show um Steven's written like a a a couple minute long monologue basically explaining the last five and a half seasons of Buffy like down to its like pure essence all the stuff that  

00:09:54

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: you need to know about the characters that are on stage for today. So like we won't go into Angel because there's no point Angel does not feature or I don't even even think he's mentioned in that episode. So, we don't, you know, it would be great to cover everything, but no, it's very much a these are the characters you're going to see. This is who they are, and this is what we're going with. And he said like that it was like I it makes total sense. I I got all of it. So, um I mean, I've had a couple of people be like, I didn't know what was going on, but I had a great time. So, and I'll take it. You know, if you had a great time, I'll take it.Ruth West: What were some of the other sort of big creative challenges you had to go through in order to get it from the from the TV episode to the stage?  

00:10:38

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: wigs. Wigs. Again, all of this under a tiny little blonde wig. Um yeah, wigs. Um definitely. Um I think again a lot of it is those moments that we don't have a camera to play with. So the amount of times that Hattie, who plays Buffy, has nearly taken me out when I'm trying to catch her to spin in something to sing about. Sometimes I think it looks really organic in like like it's like it was stunted like that. No, like genuinely her elbow was coming for her nose, my nose most of the time. Um because I remember watching the episode and it's like she's doing all the crazy dancing and then it just splits to a screen where she just turns in and spikes there. So there's like no grabbing or saving really that needed to happen. I'm like how do we recreate that on stage?  

00:11:24

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, and yeah, again, a big note to Lucy as well, who did a lot of sort of like stunt coordination and stuff because most of the performers have had minimal fight coro and stuff and then having to set it to music as well. So, it was literally fight coro. But yeah, I and I can't think of any other challenges really. H yeah, I think it's it's it's it's I think as well is making sure that the cuz it is an iconic episode like even if you've not watched Buffy, you've heard of the musical episode of Buffy and trying to keep those moments like really iconic like scenes and making sure that they are what people because people if people are coming to see for I'll never tell for example big fight, not fight, big uh dance number right in the middle of it and making sure that that is there are some slight changes but the essence of it is there and the absolute insanity of that number and making sure that that stays the same.  

00:12:37

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I think it's Yeah, but that's a lot of individual sort of work that that all of the cast have done incredibly well. That's annoying. Sorry. Phone's just going off.Ruth West: Do you need it or do you need to get it or are you No, don't worry.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: No, no, no. We're technically closed, so they can wait. Just hopefully it'll ring on. There we go. There we go. Apologies. I'd say costume as well. Yeah.Ruth West: Oh yeah, your costumes were on point though. like especially some of Tara carbon copies justBehind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Thank you. Well, yeah. So, I've seen productions of it on sort of YouTube and online and stuff. And um like no offense to those other productions, but if it wasn't for the fact of I know exactly who's singing what at any given point, I wouldn't necessarily be able to tell Dawn, Tara, Willow apart because the  

00:13:29

 Ruth West: Yeah.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: costumes just aren't even close and the hairstyles aren't even close. That's fine. That's how they wish to do it. But again, I was like, well, if we've got the screen playing, the people on the stage have to closely represent um the dresses. Then you've got that Willow dress in the first half that she's wearing for Under Your Spell, which is like a oneoff designer dress that um that Allison hanging and had. It's like where are we going to find which in the world she absolutely can't afford? No, it was like a one-off like bespoke designer piece and it's beautiful. It's like how are we going to create that? I was doing a show once where I was killed off very early. Um but you know, you have to stay around for the applause. Um so I had about a two hour about an hour and a half wait in a dressing room as the rest of the show continued.  

00:14:20

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, I brought an over sort of jacket for this sort of prom dress we brought for Willow. And I was just there looking at like images of it and just painting with fabric paint all the tree designs onto her onto the onto it. It's like a water. It's a two too. We got we got Yes. Theory and um under your spell, but yeah.Ruth West: How did how did you approach it all in rehearsals in regards the music and the coro and sort of characterization because obviously again they're so recognizable.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um so, yeah.Ruth West: How can you replicate that without it being too mimicky?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah. So, we initially, so we our big rehearsals were last August. Um, and I think we did a 10w week process, but just like one day a week, a lot of people have got other jobs, gigs, and shows on.  

00:15:08

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, we did one day a week for 10 weeks. And I stripped it down to the way that I've always seen it is there are certain couples in the show that perform together or come together. So there was a special rehearsal that was just focused around Charles Tara Willow because everything they sing and do they're in the vicinity of each other. There was an Anna Xander rehearsal day and then you top tailed with somebody else. I come it was probably those other three and then we pulled them together to do like theory and stuff. Um Spike and Buffy had their own rehearsal. Um, and uh, Sweet and Dawn had their own rehearsals. We brought everyone into their different rehearsals and just attacked it and said, "Here's the coro. Here's the music. I'm not expecting it to be good." And then throughout October, we just did runs, runs, runs, runs.  

00:15:56

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, and now we just get together like every so often just to keep it fresh, keep it going if there's going to cast change up. Um, yeah. And and so it's very minimally rehearsed now. Um I think if we were to like if Hattie was to step away who plays Buffy, that might be a more intense process cuz she does have a lot to do. Yeah. Yeah. Or if any of the ensemble have to step away. Misha and Lick. Just do everything. Yeah. Um Yeah. It's And also it's we the cast as a whole. There's a couple of people who aren't necessarily as sure on the on the on the source material, but like 90% of the cast are huge Buffy fans, so actually getting everybody into those characters was not actually that difficult cuz everyone kind of had knew where they were where they were doing it.  

00:16:47

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, so that wasn't too difficult and it wasn't something that we necessarily had to really focus on in rehearsal because everybody kind of knew their characters. And even as the show's evolved, like we've been working on this for over a year now. As the show's evolved, the characters that we play have gotten have they're still the core of who the original characters you found you see on screen are, but there's like an element of like this is my version of the character. So Reese for example, oh my god, Reese who plays Xander. Xander is Oh my god, I have so much hate for Xander. Um I am If Zander Harris has no haters, I am dead. Um he Yeah.Ruth West: great person now like he's been done for like robbery and stuff like that.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah.Ruth West: Anyway,Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, um, he has there he's there's nothing really going on there with that character in that episode in that episode.  

00:17:49

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: It's hard to when we're when we're performing the songs, there's really nothing going on. Um, so Reese has done this really good job of just finding going this is Xander if he was just as insane and unhinged as his fiance. Let's just ramp that up. So now I'll Never Tell is just me and Ree going insane. Um to the beat. Um and yeah, it's it's having him like really push the I do not care what's going on. I'm so disinterested in every single thing that's happening, but pushing that to 11. Um so he's Yeah, he's done some really good work on like finding that character and making it actually interesting for the stage. I think that's that's it. when it's on a screen. Obviously, when you're acting to a screen, you get to play a lot of subtleties and stuff and you can't do that on a stage.  

00:18:42

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, we kind of do I wouldn't say the word parody is not what we do, but it's like it's an exaggerated version of each character. So, you know, when playing Spike and stuff, I'm a lot more like walk with the hips and have the sway. Like it's it's almost it's almost insane the way I'm moving at those moments, but that is an exaggeration of kind of how James Masters did walk with the character and stuff. He was very sort of hips forward and slinky sort of thing. Yeah.Ruth West: Do you have any songs yourselves that are your favorite? Especially if you've played Spike and Giles, you've done it all.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um gosh, vocally I'm definitely more Giles. Like just I've got a slight my voice is a bit higher than Spike. So, which in a weird way does make it a bit of a straightforward sing. It's like practically speaking this which is which is nice and chill.  

00:19:32

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, when I was younger, Under Your Spell was my favorite. Under your spell and walk through the fire. Under your spell was a song because my mom absolutely loves Buffy. She loves it. And I remember when I was like a child, she'd like put together like playlists and and and CDs to to play in the car and stuff and Under Your Spell was on there. So when I was a kid, I thought Under Your Spell was a song, just like a song from an artist that got put on an album. And then and so then when I watched the episode for the first time, I was like, "Oh, this is this isn't this isn't a real Well, it is a real song, but it's like a it's like a parody song for a musical episode of a sci-fi." No, not sci-fi, like a fantasy romance horror show. I think Rest in Peace and um Under Your Spell, they stand up so well because actually they do stand up outside of context.  

00:20:25

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah. You don't those songs don't need a lot of like they're not making references to uh to past events or they're not making they don't really mention names in those songs, I'm pretty sure, other than Willow Tree, but that's that's a play on words. So, they those two songs really really stand up. Yeah. Um, I do think Standing is very pretty. Um, but but yeah, the the whole nonsense we have going on with it. Yeah, I think Oh, and the standing under your spells is just heartbreaking moment of television. Um, I like I like I'll Never Tell because it's the one I do. Um, no, I've always I've always loved that song. That fact that was the song in the episode that made me go I want to play Anna. So, I do love that song.  

00:21:10

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: But I also I love um What You Feel. Yes. Uh the sweet song. It's so good. It just sort of Yeah. hits all the right spots. It's just Yeah. And Joe really plays a stick to it. Oh, yeah.Ruth West: So I want to get a little bit into the marketing of things. Firstly, how do you manage that? Is that both of you? Do you have a team? What's the situation?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: It's me. Yeah. I mean, Tony physically puts everything together. Yeah. Um, I'm the annoying kind of person that goes, I have this idea, make it happen. So, we did do some um acoustic re-recordings of some of the songs um which um was yeah, it was an idea that I had thinking, well, not a lot.  

00:21:56

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: There are a couple of cup covers out there, but there's nothing on Tik Tok. There's no sounds to like to to use for the individual songs. Same as on um Instagram. Yeah, because we obviously we've been doing stories and uh posts for years and it's like, "Oh, I just want to post this song, this song from the musicals, not on Instagram." I don't know why. So, we thought we'd put the songs out there. Um and we are planning to do more of them because they did really really well for us in a sort of outreach um kind of way. And they're fun. Yeah. And they're fun. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, come down to a recording studio and uh tightly professionally record um a song from this show. Yes, I'm there.  

00:22:34

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah. Um, but yeah, a a lot of the a lot of the like visual marketing stuff, it's it was kind it was quite easy actually to to sort of put those things together and get like a a a a look to everything because there already is one. Um, and because we're like it's a tribute to this to this episode, then it was basically just mimicking what was already there so people can see it and go, "Oh, that's Buffy the Vampire there. wants more with feeling. I know that. I like that. I'm going to come to that. So, it was it was I've been trying to keep as tight to that as possible. Originally, all of our marketing was very much the classic sky background, close-ups, stars, very light. Um, we have recently kind of moved to more of the there's a vinyl the vinyl cover from the episode.  

00:23:25

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: we've moved more to that because it does kind of include all of the um it means it can include all of the actors in the um in the poster whereas the other one was a bit more restrictive. It's only like really the Scoobies who were on there. So yeah, we've moved around a bit but from actually creating a a brand identity. Um it's yeah, it was pretty straightforward. It's already there. I mean we got Once More with Buffering, which is a I believe a musical podcast dedicated to the episode. Again, they've gone with the sky faces. Um, there was a drag cabaret in London that was uh again dedicated to Buffy and the musical episode and it was the the the same sort of sky background. So, it the the tools are there for it. Um, but I do enjoy the vinyl cover is uh that one feels a bit like you have to be you have to be like in on the no with that.  

00:24:19

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, yeah, but we've got once a feeling and big letters across the bottom. So, like it's it's yeah, it's just kind of chang switching things up a little bit as we've kind of the show has kind of grown and improved and and elevated. We just thought we'd change up the the visuals and how it looks and stuff. So, yeah.Ruth West: Who designed the sleigh build? Because that is on point.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Which one's Oh, the sleigh bill. Well, it was it was kind of your idea and then I just put it together.Ruth West: Absolutely genius. Genius. Have you sort of tapped into any fan communities like general nerds or Buffy communities in order to try and increase your audiences?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um we've done a little bit online. Um we we we've got a event coming up later this year which we um it's not been announced as yet. Yes.  

00:25:12

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: But that's a very much a big a a big long Buffy event. Um, and we are going to be sectioned into it. Um, so that one we're really really looking forward to. Um, and we hope that one's gonna, you know, again, will help spread the word and stuff. Um, but yeah, we're hoping next year to, um, land a few more venues outside of Glostershare. We've got so many people asking us to go, well, north and south really, but like basically everyone wants the show and we're like, we'll do it. We'll bring it. We just need to find the right venues and we're there.Ruth West: Have you thought about uh expanding into merchandise?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, you know, again, add some new bits and pieces to it and then we think we're probably going to put it to bed for a little bit, aren't we? Yeah, I think so.  

00:26:21

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah, we're probably going to after next year just kind of Yeah. pop it on a shelf, go that was amazing. Um, then but there's always a 30th anniversary. There's always a 35th anniversary in Exactly.Ruth West: They're relaunching, aren't they? As well. You want to get on that bandwagon whenBehind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, we have very much spoken about like how we can incorporate that into our sort of our marketing on trend. The second they release any posters, any teasers, anything like that, we're going to directly copy it. Yeah, absolutely. Because you did um and Tony even um just randomly out of the blue just said, "Oh, look at this one." And it was an homage to the 1992 movie Buffy the Vampire Slayer.Ruth West: Yeah, seen that.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Like instead of holding a steak in a cheerleader outfit, it was like a two-piece and a microphone.  

00:27:09

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, it had a bit like a six vibe almost. Yeah, it's a bit like that. I just saw the poster because I think it's just a picture of of of Buffy. I can't remember the actor's name. Swanson. Yes. Um like it's just sort of her in a way a little cheerleading outfit and it was like really simple. I was like I could do this quite quickly. I could just throw this together and it would be very fun. So, I thought why not be a laugh.Ruth West: happen to have this in my wardrobe already.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah.Ruth West: So tell us a bit more about behind the curtain, how you started. You said you started doing cabaret. When did you start?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah, I think 2023 was our first show.Ruth West: How long have you been doing that for?  

00:27:47

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yes. 23. And these were very much um I I say parking box. It's a very small area, very small stage. Um usually Justin on piano. Um and then singers rock up to the microphone and sing musical theater songs that are very well known. maybe sing musical theater songs that aren't very well known. Um, our next So, we've done uh we've done Disneybased ones, we've done villains based one, we've done parts I'll never play. We did a Taylor Swift one. We did one, we did we did a Taylor Swift one, reimagining some Taylor songs as musical theater. Um, we uh did a back to school one. So, your Greece, Mean Girls, Heathers, um um Back to the Future, all featured. Um, and then we so then the Buffy idea was born from that. Well, if we're going to do Buffy as a cabaret show, we need to make it bigger.  

00:28:38

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, and I think the ultimate goal is for us, um, we want to just do more queer le theater. So, we've got some ideas around productions in plays that would be either adaptations or original pieces. Um, they're going to have a very strong queer focus, queer presence. Because in my opinion, like the whole of the theater industry has queer people have been front center, but they've also been in the background um in costumeuming, in um lighting, like everywhere. Everywhere the queers make theater happen. So, that's very much what we want to do moving forward is like telling more queer stories and we feel we feel Buffy is a part of that. um Willow and Tara at the time of the episode and their whole relationship was um was groundbreaking TV re really. Yeah. So yeah, that's our main sort of focus behind the curtain is make theater and make it really queer.  

00:29:38

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah.Ruth West: Brilliant. Uh, where have I got to? Oh, got two screens and it's like enormous on this one. I just scrolled it totally.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Have you noticed saying Lucy started putting a call me in at the end of Yeah, we yeah, we work with freelancers.Ruth West: So tell me about your team for behind the curtain. Is it the two of you? Do you hire in freelancers as and when you need it? How does it all work?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I mean, Justin, bless him, um works really really really hard. So, Justin's our musical director. Um he's done the majority of the cabarets to date. Um he's also had to do a lot of arranging on Buffy. Um there's a certain song um that we do on the encore that just doesn't exist because it was a tag along moment. Um and he bless him, he had to sit there and I think listen to it over YouTube because there isn't even an Apple Music version.  

00:30:31

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um and just figure out the chord sequence and then build an accompliment around that. Um so Justin's put a lot of time and hard work into this. Um we have um Joy Amy Wigman who um you she performed as Tara for the show. Um but she's also our vocal coach um and sort of person that yeah leads sort of like vocal warm-ups and helps people with challenging moments cuz there is some moments in the show that can be quite vocally challenging. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um and then yeah then everyone else. So Lucy we mentioned as well fight coro stunt woman and performer. Um and um really helped us with intimacy coordination. Um me and Hattie do you have a moment to recreate from the episode again? It was one of those ones like could we just sing it and flash it up on the screen?  

00:31:22

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: No. No. It's not going to work. So um so she was really really like great helping us with some interview coordination as well.Ruth West: How do you budget or find funding for the shows that you do?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So this Yeah, great question. Um, we were very fortunate with Playhouse the first time we did it. Um, it was ticket split. Yes, ticket split. Yeah. Um, and then so a case of us just throwing money at it to begin with from ourselves. Um, and then sort of like getting that back in expenses afterwards. Um, and that's kind of like it's where we are unc unfortunately at the moment is we sort of need venues to um to support us a little bit with that. So whether it's ticket splits or or or or take a fee um post ticket sales um is kind of where we're working.  

00:32:14

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah. Because we've we've only really we've only been an official business proper official a CIC business community interest company for well since February. Um, and from that we've had like plans like we know when we get profit and stuff we'll just like get a little bit and put it put it into the company um just so we can put it into further shows. Uh but ultimately we're a non sort of profit yeah organization.Ruth West: Okay.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So any money we do make will go straight into shows. Um, but because we're still very young and still very early and I think we've only done we've only done two shows um since becoming and both of them were Buffy. Both of them are Buffy. Uh, we've not managed to really like make a massive amount yet. So, yeah, it's very much trying to find the venues that we can work with that will and obviously venues have to make money.  

00:33:08

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: We're very aware of that. Venues do have to make money. Um especially the smaller ones. Yeah, absolutely. The ones that don't get big touring productions are like Heathers or or external funding. Yeah. As well. So yeah, we we we will be looking for looking very much looking into venues, but um I think we we've got a couple on the on the horizon. Um I mean funding is something um we're learning more as we go. Like it's a minefield. Um, and we definitely want to apply for stuff certainly with a said those queerbased adaptations or original pieces of work. Um, we're probably going to work with smaller casts to begin with as well, which things like twohanders or or one that only requires five performers or something which obviously will greatly reduce costs. Um, but yeah, we we funding is something we are definitely going to be looking at for future shows.  

00:33:58

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: We're hoping this one can kind of bankroll itself a little bit on reputation and the want for it because people want to come and see this on stage and relive the memories of when they first watched it um and celebrate that music cuz um whilst it's not traditional musical theater music, I'd say it is almost a parody of musical theater in its own way. Um people still love it. People still think it's iconic and I think it works for people that can be a fan of the show but not necessarily a fan of musicals cuz it does walk that fine line between well it is a serious musical in the sense that we take you from a point we take you to another point and everyone's sings in between but all of the music kind of pulls from different you know rest in peace is a bit of a more of a rocky horror vibe um and I'll never tell your classic sort of Hollywood um singing in the rainesque moment um So they all pull from just different I suppose like walk through the fire is an attempt at a lay miz moment where we're all just singing different things over each other and it's all dramatic and serious.  

00:35:01

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: We did make a joke with walk through the fire that we should just get five treadmills on the stage we're doing when the Scoobies are doing like yes someone fund us for treadmills please.Ruth West: Sorry that uh what in regards to becoming a CIC company, what were the steps you took? What made you decide to specifically go down the nonprofit route? What what's all of that about?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, it was we we knew we wanted to kind of become a legitimate business um just because things were starting to ramp up and we were like, let's we we you know, let's get let's get serious. Um and I think we we looked into the options and based off of the work that we want to do with um within the queer community and also uh women like a lot a lot of women led uh stuff as well. Um, we thought this is something we want to do. We don't we we're not in it for the money.  

00:35:54

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: We're not in it to make a massive massive profit. Who isn't who's starting up their own theater stuff for the money? Unless you're being bankrolled by, you know, millionaire relatives, right? Um, we yeah, we we were like we we we're not in it for the money. We don't want to be here making like, you know, thousands and thousands. Um, we just want to make theater. we want to put um queer and queer and sort of fem presenting people in the spotlight and we thought well CIC makes sense we can you know it's when you hear CS because CSU is it it's like the the balance between a charity and a business I think it's fair to say um so yeah we just felt like it made sense that we've got this like big mission statement and we've got this like really like strong idea of what we want this company to be and a CIC just worked for that a lot better than just a business like a limited company.  

00:36:52

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I think as well like um you know we're both queer individuals um who um it's tough times in the UK at the moment um tough times across the world as well. And so if us doing um you know a lesbian vampire story explored um you know in Victorian literature thing but we make it hella gay and people have a great time in have sympathy for these characters um and maybe rethink some of their stances, their positions and their biases then great like we have 100% done our job. um you know and there are other like there are so much in literature and stories that have come before queerness is it's not just a subtext it's absolutely there but it's just been like brushed under the carpet to make the story more palatable and I'm like no all the books been completely censored because some writers in that time um ended up going to jail over the the book cough Darian Grey Oscar Wild justice for Oscar Wild um so yeah we we want to unapologetically gay art in theater um for queer people to enjoy.  

00:38:07

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um but also if it said if if it just opens up people to oh well actually that was a beautiful love story that just happened to star two women or that was actually a horribly toxic love story that just happened to star two women then yeah that's kind of what our main point is and obviously working um predominantly with queer performers as well. people who might be told, um, oh, you'll choose this to pass as straight or to pass as this character. It's like, well, honestly, the queer the better. Come work with us. And and also like the the stories themselves aren't just they're not just right, this is a story about being queer. This is a story about being there. Stories about other things and other themes and other like um well, yeah, other themes. Um and and that is what the story is about. the story is about, you know, toxic relationships, um, you know, the fear of getting old, the all of these sort of things very, um, that's at the base of the story.  

00:39:09

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: And it just so happens that the main characters are que and that does lead into those those themes quite a bit, but that's not just we're not going this is a play about gay people because we want to make a play about gay people. It's the other themes and so on throughout the stories that we're also really really interested in as writers, performers, directors, um, producers, and yeah, that's kind of where we're Yeah, one of my big inspirations is Annne Rice's Vampire Chronicles, which in the 70s and 80s in book form started out so gay. Um, and then we got a 1994 film, I want to say, with Tom Cruz and Brad Pitt. And obviously being of the time they obviously dropped the Latin Louie romance from that story hinted at. It was certainly homoerrooerotic but that was about as far as it was going to go. And then obviously AMC have done their retelling of that in the last few years which I believe is going from strength to strength and is really really successful.  

00:40:05

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I enjoyed watching it and they went yeah no we're making this gay. We're taking this back to its roots, but also keeping those themes there um of what the original book was saying, but also improving on stuff a little bit by having more um representation of um people of color um which did not happen in the original book. So that's my thing with an adaptation or a retelling. Um focus on the themes that were always there, bring them to the forefront, but obviously if there's an opportunity to correct something like was there enough women? Were these women well represented? Um, should there be people of color in this? Yes. Is is kind of what our focus is. Yeah. Moving forward.Ruth West: And what is the LGBTQ plus community like in Chelenham?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I think it's pretty it's it's a smaller community.  

00:40:54

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I mean, I I my a lot of my sort of community um ties are back in Bristol because I lived there for seven years. Um, and you know, that that is a very gay place.Ruth West: Mhm.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: It's great. I love Bristol. Um, but Chelenham, I will say there's a lot of young queer people coming up, especially around drag. Um, especially around performance arts, drag. Um, there's a lot of young people coming up through music as well. Um, yeah, Chenham's very much is become it's almost punk again to be that objectively out there queer. Um, and that's where it seems to be this mesh between young k young young people in the music scene and young queer performers just seem to have come together like both of our alternative bars in Chelham host regular drag or have drag performers um and are just generally the the hangouts of where a lot of the queer um individuals are going.  

00:41:51

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, I say Chenham's um queer scene is something to watch closely. Definitely.Ruth West: So back to sort of logistics, how have you got around rights and things like that?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So it's um it so I I I did go to um I tried Warner Brothers, I tried um MIT and everyone was just kind of coming up with so from what my understanding was um Josh Weeden um had said that he did not want it performed um and but um again I don't believe the rights are the rights are now with Disney I believe which is why we're getting the rebooted under the sort of the HU grand. Um so we went with um I I did speak to someone from MIT and was like listen this is my proposed plan and they were like well this is I think as good as you can go. Um it being a tribute um comes under a tribute performance hence why we're all in costumes as closely as we can to the episode.  

00:42:56

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: We're not screening the episode in its entirety because if we were to screen the episode there would need to be a licensing thing around that as well. So we believe we come under a fair use tribute act. Um and I as you said Tik Tok has done great numbers for us and if I know anything about Disney if they feel their if they feel their property um is being misused or misrepresented um they soon get in touch. Um, so yeah, and we like we we don't ever say that we're, you know, it's the original performers or anything or or and I think if we were to act it out on stage like verbatim sets and stuff, um, I think that again would come under like it would be a copyright. Um, but as it stands, I think we are, um, we are covered. We've done a lot of research. We've done so much research.  

00:43:51

 Ruth West: And how has planning for the tour logistically gone? You're heading to Bristol and Western Super pretty soon, aren't you?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yes. Um, Bristol, we've got we're performing in a cemetery in Bristol, which is amazing. Honest on a veil cemetery, which is gorgeous. It's logistically going to be a nightmare. Um, it's one of those there's only one entrance in and out of the building, so once the doors are closed, the audience are in, you've got nowhere to hide, cast. Yeah, it's so I'm I'm I'm very much looking at this um going from having this in a proper theater space to the um the chapel in in at Arnest Veil. I am well the closer the time closer to the show we get I'm more panicking about it but like I I am seeing it I want to see it more as a um a like an opportunity. So, as we said, we want to we want to take this sort of a bit more further around the country next year.  

00:44:50

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: And if we can do this transition from a proper theater space to a tiny little room, then I'm seeing this is going right, we can take this, we can take this anywhere. Um, so yeah, we're going to be working very closely with our um sort of the technician who we work with a lot, um, Ollie, who is incredible. He's very very good at what he does and he can really he's really got an eye for like looking at production asking like so what is it you want right this is how I can see this happening in this space actually how it's physically going to work it's physically going to work but he he's very good at trying to do it as much as possible but like taking the essence of what you want as a producer director creative and saying okay cool so that isn't necessarily going to work but that's the That's like the reason you're doing it. That's your intention behind it and your motivation.  

00:45:45

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: How can we take that motivation and make it actually logistically possible for the space you're in? Yeah. And we we've got another one coming up where it's like um the space is small and the vibe is going to be very different to having a seated audience in a theater. It's going to be let's say more like a gig space. Um, so that therefore means well we need to look at it actually and go what sense of humor do we need if it's a gig rather than a theatrical performance. Yeah. What's going to be different if the cast are on standing mics? Um what do we do if we have no dressing room space? Um so and a lot of these um a lot of these things are coming up for us in the near future. So um yeah, I would quite like to get the show to a point where it's almost like different versions of it.  

00:46:30

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So depending on the space, depending on what um we're going for. I mean, obviously for me, I think the preference would always be massive cinema screen, big stage, couple of balconies for some um for some surprise moments. Um but that's not every venue, that's not every theater, that's not every um every gig you're going to book. So I would quite like to have many different versions. So we're like, okay, so this one we can, you know, it it's it's a parking bark standing, but we've got projection going on behind us um with um backing tracks, for example, or this is an outdoor one in summer. So projection is is so how do we do that one for um so yeah, I like to have like many different versions of the show. They can be quite versatile and fit many different needs and wants, but also is the essence of the show. Yes.  

00:47:17

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So like people won't go to one and think, "Oh, well that's not as good as when I've seen it at the Chapman Playhouse, for example." Like keep try and really keep the the the joy and the the love that we've received from our previous runs of it and like make sure that that's still very much there and within the production no matter how we perform it and how we do it. Um yeah, so as it start we're lucky we're all quite localish.Ruth West: In terms of like the logistics, who's booked the venues? Do you have contacts in those? Who's done all the accommodation and things like that?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um furthest out people at the moment are Swindon. Um so between Chelham and Swindon um is all the cast so far. Um I've mostly done a lot of that stuff. Um contacting venues which is challenging at the moment. Again, we're looking for those, you know, three 400 seaters.  

00:48:19

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, ideally with a sort of a cinema setup option. Um, and there's plenty of these spaces that exist, but a lot of them don't have full-time people um in the building or for or management that are able to So, sorry.Ruth West: Also these are the cost or they're completely inflexible. So these are the costs to hire can't afford it.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, it it is quite challenging, but it is about sort of casting that wide net in saying, well, is this possible? Is this doable? Um, and yeah, we're just, it's a relentless case of just saying knocking on doors basically, but via email and phone calls. I find phone calls really helpful. Um, but yeah, um, I so I used to live in Bristol.Ruth West: Find the cemetery.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, and I love that. So that cemetery, this is where I get really morbid.  

00:49:12

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: That cemetery is almost like a day out to Alton Towers for me. Um it is so beautiful. It is so green and full of nature, but then obviously you're surrounded by um reminders of um the impermanence of life as well. So it's like a double-edged sword of like everything like flourishing and being beautiful, but also like none of this is permanent. Um, and it's like over the over the years like it was I think it was abandoned around about the 1930s, 1940s and then was sort of like rediscovered or or people sort of like happened across it years later. So since like the 70s and the 80s there have been a mass restoration project but almost like a forest has erupted um where a lot of the graves and the tombs are. So it is like beautifully hauntingly unique. Um, and yeah, like I've noticed in the past they have hosted plays. They've done outdoor cinema.  

00:50:04

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, I think like a few years ago they were like screening Hocus Pocus um during Halloween weekend which you think that that that is an amazing opportunity. Well, they they mostly do weddings. They do weddings as well. Yeah. Particularly and this kind of also fits in with our sort of like branding. Well, brand like I like what how what we are as a company is that a lot of their weddings are queer weddings. So that's really they do we they do cater to the straits as well. Um but like um yeah there's it's a lot of like queer weddings is a massive part of what they do and I think that is it just that space is is really nice. So it does it fits into our themes but also Buffy in a cemetery. Yes, please. I think they've been lovely as well.  

00:50:49

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: They're like oh do you guys you know if you're in costume before the show or do you know feel free to have a photo shoot? here's the rules and stuff like you know around that and their sort of like what their um due diligence is and stuff. So like you know which for marketing for next year having like literally spike in Buffy you know with a tombstone between them or or yeah that's going to really really like help us with our media packs and stuff sending out to theaters and venues.Ruth West: Brilliant. You sort of touched on what your plans are for the future, so I skim over that unless you've got something else you'd like to add.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah, I think at the moment we want to play that a little more closer to I think we've given hints if people are like really keen. U but yeah, we'll play that close to our chest for now just to uh you know again getting funding.  

00:51:39

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: We do actually we well actually no we do we could talk about um possibly the scratchy thing. Oh yeah yeah yeah. the So, we've got um a potential project coming up um for next year and we've got so based off of the sort of the what we we mentioned earlier on some of our um the the more like theaters and working with like queer writers. We've got a night that we want planned that when the just started planning and it's so because we're called beh it's kind of like a scratch night but it's not really a scratch night. So, it's not like open mic in that sort of sense. is a lot more rehearsed and it will be rehearsed, but um because we're called behind the curtain and this was Lucy Lucy our um who came up with this um it's going to be called a swatch night instead um which is genius and um annoyed that she came up with it and not me.  

00:52:29

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: But the idea of having a curtain that's almost the patchwork of all these different works. So, it's we're going to each writer is presenting one or two scenes from an original work or adaptation. Um, and between a small troop of actors, we're just going to act out a couple of these scenes. Um, talk to people involved in funding or theater locally, Bristol, Worcester. Um, only a sort of a very small almost cabaretesque um, yeah, speak easy vibes. It's going to be very very strict back. I think we're not going to bother with like doing costumes where even we are really you're also kind of I meanaring about even having people not like we're thinking about potentially having have people with scripts like obviously rehearsing and know what you're saying so you're not const you're not like here oh yeah cold reading but but like the idea of us actually just having the books out so it's not completely yeah it's not the final piece and also this won't be the final bit of writing either because I'm sure there'll be feedback from people.  

00:53:28

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, it'll just be it's a very much a developmental piece. It's a lot more kind of relaxed. Um, and we've already got a good excuse me, we've already got a great team together of people who we are going to be working with. Um, and I mean, some of these plays will very much be behind the curtain shows in the future. Two of them definitely definitely will be. Um, and then we've got a couple that might not be, but we don't necessarily we're not worried about that. just want to be able to say like we wanted to give a spotlight to those writers so they can help get funding and then produce that in their own right with a different company what have you. Um so we're not like yeah they're not all going to be behind the curtain productions when they come into their final uh version but we yeah we just want to work with people and also our friends as well.  

00:54:13

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: They are our friends um and we want to give them a boost because that is what theater is pretty much about is like helping people out. So yeah, that's it's going to be really really fun. We've only really just started working on it. Um we've had a meeting we had a meeting last week to really discuss sort of the the kind of the bigger picture, but then we'll get into the finer details as we get closer to the time. Um yeah, we've not really got any we've not got a date or or times for that yet, but it's something that we're definitely working on and we will there will be more details at some point in the future. Yeah, follow us.Ruth West: Do you think in in addition to being a theater company that produces your own work, then you're also sort of creating a networking community.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Oh yeah, I would love to be in a position um where somebody who hasn't had I wouldn't say necessarily like the training but like who has an idea, has a script, has a concept and they're like but how do I make this happen?  

00:55:14

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um that would be like the ultimate dream to be supporting people bring art to life. Yeah. Um you know is it is a difficult industry to navigate. Um and I think um I can't speak for you but a lot of it is like because it's so difficult to it's so difficult to get even your foot through the door to even show like something you could do or you're capable of. Um, so a point it's like, well, let's just do it. And I think there's a lot of that happening. Um, like I there's a theater I was speaking to in Nottingham and they just produced their own original work. So they they they are looking like potentially in the future um touring productions will be something they'll look at um as as an option. But yeah, it's a theater where actors and writers and performers are just going in and working in creating original theater.  

00:56:08

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: And I'm like that that's the dream. So yeah, but I think it's one of those things that it's it's one of those dreams you just you have to make happen. Yeah. It's not just going to fall into your lap. You're just not going to network yourself into that situation. Um so yeah, I would love to personally be someone that does support people with that journey. Yeah.Ruth West: I think it's really interesting as well because ultimately everyone that I've spoken to in a sort of fringe theater environment, no one knows how you get there. And and even as you go higher up, the people who work at like we used to at uni call it muk musicals because you're just churning out the same things. The people who work at that level know exactly what you do and there's a regimented structure and it's contact this touring venue and this one and we'll put together a route.  

00:56:52

 Ruth West: But anything below that, they're like, I don't know. How did you get it this far? It's like, well, I've done all of that off my own back and then what do I do now? I don't know if you guys have had a different experience or are finding it very much the same.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, yeah, I think it was well I mean the CH Playhouse was really really great for this. Um, and I also another thing that they work in and it's something that I actually I work in in the marketing for the Playhouse and it's another um kind of project within the Playhouse that I kind of co-lead which is the Chelton Fringe Festival um which happens during May um and last year we were able to bring Once Feeling to the Well, you brought bought it and I was like I I'm going to be I'm going to be on this side of the organizing this. But as as as a actual um as a as a festival that we do.  

00:57:48

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So it's a very very small festival. It all takes place in the in the the Chelman Playhouse. It's uh very very small. We've only been doing it for the we've only done it the past two years. So it started in 2024 and then we've done it again this year and we're hopefully going to be doing it again next year. Um, but we try and really operate on a if you're a small theater company starting out, we want your we want you to just come in, do your scratch nights, do developmental work, do research, h bring a finished piece of theater. Um, and I think there is there is not a lot of options like that. And I'm going off a tangent. There's nothing to do with behind the curtain at all but um it's yeah I think there are there are some places but there are like some ways in which small theater is uh supported but it is few and far between and it is hard to find.  

00:58:45

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So we we are quite lucky in Charlton to have um a festival like that to work with. And it was also part of why me and my my my colleague Lauren decided to set it up in the first place is like we really want to give a space to artists newer like more experienced but with newer work um to just come and have fun, put on the productions, get some feedback um just have that opportunity to kind of get your foot through the door. I think it's future proofing as well. venues that are less than I'd say three 400 seats obviously are not attractive to muk musicals and they will not go there. um which is like even though when like um I'm trying I'm think I'm not going to say the name but I know there was one that was doing a UK tour and um between Mulvin and Chelner in the bigger theaters they super struggled to sell seats but they still will not like like they would fit in the playhouse in 180 capacity like the ticket sales they did and yes it'll be probably making a loss for them but you think like that's got to be better than sitting in an 800 seater with like not even a quarter filled um But this it's future proofing in my opinion cuz like um if you look at I mean  

00:59:59

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I'm Andrram societies will always be around but you know a lot of what Andrram was 30 40 years ago was um people who um you know were well off enough in their jobs. This was a hobby. This was a community thing. But those communities don't just run on the people that want to perform. Now there's plenty of them that those people coming up but it's the chairs. It's the treasurers, it's the social committees, it's all these things that a lot of people aren't I would I would say able to do in today's sort of like climate. Like we all have to work pretty hard for not a lot. And I do think like community theater is something that will I wouldn't say it would die out, but I think it's going to greatly reduce um how many shows they can put on the people pulling the strings behind it and stuff because a lot of younger people just do not have the time or the want to give their away their time for free.  

01:00:56

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: And if we if the smaller venues really do rely on a lot of community theater, but the point is like but there is so much like like smaller up and cominging theater that is like that would also be your bread and butter. Like I don't think you can rely on um tribute acts in Andram for much longer. I think in the future we're going to see that sort of all reduce a lot. So actually supporting smaller creators in smaller companies would be a good bet in my opinion. Yeah.Ruth West: so give you all the money and funding.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah. Give me give us all the money and all the funding and we promise we'll never turn it into a muk musical. Promise.Ruth West: What advice would you give to anyone who's in your position who's starting on the same sort of similar project and wants to know where to go and how to do it?  

01:01:53

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Don't let setbacks put you off. Absolutely. Don't don't let things so like we've mentioned funding is a nightmare. Getting funding is a nightmare and the chances are you will apply for funding for 10 different places. You might hear back from like two of them and it'll probably be no and it'll probably be no. It's it's a nightmare. It's very very difficult and you can't let that stop you because eventually you will somebody out there will go that's not a bad idea and give you that money. Surround yourself with as well surround yourself with um people who have got your back and share your same passion. Um, I think that's what's really kind of definitely helped us is that our team and it's our team like the the people who we've we work with um on a regular basis. We do tend to keep going back to the same people because we we are they are incredible and they are always so so supportive and they very much share the same mindsets as us.  

01:02:57

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So we yeah I yeah don't let setbacks put hold you back. Surround yourself with supportive people who share the same mindset. That's my That's two. I'm so sorry. Yeah. And yeah, I say dream big and audaciously. Huh?Ruth West: You can say as many as you like.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah. I say dream big. Dream audaciously. Um don't think that um you know, yes, it can be tricky to navigate and not everybody has the same advantages as everyone else, but keep knocking on doors. Keep saying, "Hey, I've got a good thing. I've got an interesting thing." at least talk to me about at least give me five minutes on the phone. Um, and as well like get get comfortable with failure cuz like failure and setbacks are just part of the learning journey.  

01:03:42

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I when I left drama school I was so reject like my my my sensitivity to rejection was almost like pathological clinical and that's what stopped me from like just going out there and doing it. Um because like even when you are leaving drama school at like 21 22 and you do have this ability and that ability and maybe this contact and stuff, you are still going to hear no a lot. Worse than that, you're going to be like you're going to submit stuff or go in and you're never going to hear from them again. Um whether that's right or wrong, that is just the way the industry works. No answer is your answer. Um, and I wish I'd sort of like had the insight at the time to sort of address that about myself, realizing that how sensitive I was to rejection in how much it would set me back and how I had to change that. I had to challenge it and just, you know, things like not the right fit.  

01:04:38

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: We It's a story. It's a thing we say to each other all the time. But it's a legitimate thing. like you can be just as good as somebody else that auditions for a part, maybe even slightly better, but when you compare it with whoever else is in the cast and how that looks, how that feels, that can absolutely be the deciding factor. And that is not a comment on your ability or your skills or your hard work. It is just not this time. But there is a a lot of not this times and a lot of nos and a lot of unanswered emails. And it is you just be determined, be audacious.Ruth West: And I think again on that, I used to get really annoyed when people didn't email me back, but so I get a press pass for the fringe through my business. And I receive probably about 10,000 emails between June and August.  

01:05:30

 Ruth West: And that is before the fringe and four review requests. and you cannot reply to every single one of them.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah.Ruth West: I think that this industry is incredibly saturated and that needs to be taken into account when you feel that rejection like they as many as you can.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah, I think like Joe um who who who plays a demon suite um he said the other day and I hope he wouldn't mind me saying this like he would rather be a actor in a small town likeRuth West: Yeah.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Glostershure Chelenham or or Southwest where he's sort of known of people have seen him and seen his work in different things and then when something's happening locally or or over in Bristol or over in Birmingham say, "Hey, there's that guy over in Gloucester." Um, he'd rather live that than just be completely unknown in London.Ruth West: Yeah.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, and just be, you know, rocking up to the same auditions, um, looking at the same guys that look exactly like you, watching the same couple of guys get that roll over you day in day out.  

01:06:29

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Like, that would be tough for me. Um, and yeah, it is a massively saturated industry. Um and it just in my opinion there needs to be just more around local theater um and supporting local theater as well. um you know a lot of smaller companies we are working so hard to be able to pay performers and pay musicians and and pay technicians um and and deal with the venue's um um higher pricing or or or expectations around that whilst also delivering an affordable ticket which is so like oh so hard. It's that real balance. Yeah, it's a real real balance. And um you know like do give £100 to go and watch Jamie Lloyd Avita. Like it looks incredible. It is a standout piece of art. If you love Rachel Zler, if you love Andrew Lloyd Weber, if you love Avita, do go and spend that money and have a great time.  

01:07:32

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: But also like there is so much going on in your local communities, your smaller communities. It's not all village hall panto. Um and even that has its own place like go and see the village for go and see the village of panto for3 pounds you will best night. Um yeah exactly I saw my friend do um Panto of the opera as a as an amateur show in Bristol and um I we had a great until we until we realized there wasn't a bar serving alcohol. We had a great time. Um, so yeah. No, like you know, for the money that you would spend to see Jamie Lloyd of each and I'm not, but like I'm not I mean I'm jealous I haven't been to see it. I really want to see it.Ruth West: Yeah.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um, you know that is that is seven, eight, 10 productions in your local community, whether it's going to keeping your Amrram community alive, whether it's supporting a small company, whether it's supporting a small oneman show and a guy is living out his dream telling his life story through a trombone or something.  

01:08:32

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: I don't know. But like look at your local scenes. Look at your local music. Look at your local arts because it's so tough at the moment. And I would hate to live in a world where it was only the Cameron Macintoshes, the Android Webbers that were producing theatrical arts. Yeah. Um is again it's not to shame or or dismiss what they've done, but like there has to be room for more stuff.Ruth West: What would be your absolute dream show that you'd want to produce in the cont sort ofBehind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, one, yeah, in the context of um like a musical, I would really love to do a Headwig uh reimagination like just maybe again some of those working with um some of the local sort of queer drag performers and stuff like I think Heg's one of Rocky Horror is controversial, but also like Locky Hover is to me Locky Hover is straight Halloween is that that's the way that I describe it now that it seems to have lost a lot of its queer identity and it is a a straight dress up night and people know and have a great time.  

01:09:42

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Again, that's I I wouldn't want they they attempted a queer reimagining of Rocky Horror and it bombed. So like in on film version. Um so I'd love to see head something that's intrinsically always been a bit more queer and and tied to identity. I would love to do a version of that. Um how about you? You've just done a really nice answer. I'm like Little Shop of Horror because I like the big planet. Um no but I I absolutely adore Little Shop of Horror. I really do. I absolutely love it. And it has it's been done quite a few times in Chelenham and recently as well actually. Um, but yeah, I I do love it. I see. I I think there is again like I think there's room for I think there is room for a queer adaptation of there was there was MJ Rodriguez did um Audrey.  

01:10:31

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So um the actress from Posum and she sung it beautifully. Um and I don't know if it was ever like said the character was trans or not. Like this this version of Audrey was trans or not. Audrey and Sema are a tea for tea couple and that's I I will stand like by that.Ruth West: RegentsBehind The Curtain Theatre Productions: And there's things like you see um like Legally Blonde where they did it at um oh what's that outdoor theater in London? Yes. Um and you know like again they were they were trans Delta New Girls and stuff. So like yeah, I think as a lot of these um big shows at the moment like it doesn't it's not a far stretch to be able to sort Well, they made that train a lesbian in in Starlight Express. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  

01:11:16

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Yeah.Ruth West: Binary I don'tBehind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Non-binary. Oh nonbinary. Yeah. I think they made they made a character who was I think it was a character grease ball from um yeah a male character in the original to when they've re when they've like redone it recently as a non-binary character. So people people are doing it. Andrew Lloyd Weber's kind of on it. He's he is he is getting it sort of where he came.Ruth West: think it was his idea. Let's not let's not give him too much credit.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: No. No, it's not. There's not. Um um but yeah, so it's it's I do like Little Shop of Horrors and I've done Little Shop of Horrors before at my school and I played the dentist and that was so fun. There was a show in London a few years ago which I never got to see um or even I don't I don't even know how well it did, how long it ran for, whether people were really into it, but it was called Makushio and Tibol and it was a love story, a reimagining of Romeo and Juliet from a love story from the perspective of Mushio and Tibol that they were secret lovers as well.  

01:12:10

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um which I was like oh my like yeah and that's the kind of stuff that I would love to do. Um, so like and Mushio here with some really queer music. Yeah. All Lannis Moris and George Michael.Ruth West: Perfect. And uh finally, where can we find you? What are your socials? Where are you performing next?Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So um, our socials are behind the curtain are Behind the Curtain Theater Comp. No, theater production. Sorry, I forgot the name of our own company. Um, fire me. Um yeah, behind the behind the cut this.Ruth West: Should we justBehind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um so you can find us as a company behind the curtain theater productions on Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok and YouTube as well. Um and yes, if you follow us on those that you can keep up to date with all the stuff that we're doing.  

01:13:06

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Um dates for shows, all that sort of thing. myself. You can find me on Instagram, Tik Tok, and well, not Facebook, uh, but Instagram and Tik Tok. Um, as Tony Shaw_ um, yes, Steven Frantois, there's usually only one of me. Occasionally, I get myself cloned, which is, uh, nice feeling sometimes. There's there's there's an Olympic diver called Tony Shaw. I'm not her, even slightly. Um and um our next performance is the 20th of September. We are doing a Andrew Lloyd Weber um uh cabaret night. Um this is a fundraiser for the Chelton Playhouse um who have quite publicly like faced quite a few financial difficulties um this past year. um which all seems to be working like so many different companies like local um groups such as CODs and Savoyards and um another production company have all like worked tirelessly to donate and raise funds for the playhouse.  

01:14:09

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Uh we've done a little bit ourselves. This is our um this is the one that we're doing where they get 100% of the money. So no singers will be paid. Um we've gone Angelo Weber because he is an industry staple. people do love his music and we want butts on seats to make sure that we have this theater in the future.Ruth West: Yeah.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So, and tickets are selling pretty well. So, yeah. Um, and yeah, there's there's a£10 ticket which is pretty reasonable, but there's an option to donate more if you wish. Um, there was about, I think, 22 weather songs that evening happening between seven cast members. Yeah, I've not been involved in this one. I didn't realize there was that many. Oh, yeah. It was a long, long ballady night.  

01:14:48

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: If you like your ballads, uh, this is the one to come to. Um, ballads and drama. That was my notes when I was taking notes during the rehearsal. I was like, "This one's dramatic. This one's ballady. This one's dramatic." Then um, we will be performing once more feeling in Annale Cemetery on the 25th and the 26th of October this year. Perfect preh Halloween um, spookathon. Um, we um, yeah, we're still working on the concept of how that show is going to look, but expect to see the cast, expect to see full costumes, expect to see live singing. Those things are non-negotiable. Um, and then yeah, then it's watch out for 2026 and what we announce.Ruth West: and Tony, while we've got you, tell us more about the Chelton Playhouse 80 for 80 campaign. Is itBehind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Uh, yes, the AT80 campaign.  

01:15:37

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: So this is um as Stephen mentioned um we had some uh financial struggles um early this year like quite quite critical. It was like wasn't 100% sure if we'd be able to survive the year uh even survive like the months ahead. Um however we are in a much stronger position now. However, you know funding is still really really vital and we still do need um cash injections where we can get them. So yes, the 80 for 80 is it's our just giving page for the Chatton Playhouse. I think it's something at like something crazy like 50,000 already, which is um incredible. So thank you very much for everybody who has support supported us so far. But yeah, we still need a little bit extra just to make sure that we we are in completely safe waters. Um so yeah, if you've got an extra couple of quid if you want to throw that our way or come to one of the fun come to one just come to go to your small theaters.  

01:16:34

 Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: half the time the bar's cheaper than the big the bigger theaters. Um the tickets are certainly cheaper and um I I think there's more interesting stuff to be like I've seen um um Heather's um at like our local big theater and had a great time. Love the music. Love the show. But you know it is what it is. Whereas if you want to see sort of more bespoke custom in-your-face art, um then yeah, look at your smaller venues. Um a lot of them are going to be having hard times and the best way to support them is to use them, is to keep going, is to have a couple of drinks at the bar at intermission. Um and then enjoy the show that's happening in front of you and then tell everyone how much you enjoyed the show that was happening in in front of you. Um yeah, support small theater.Ruth West: Brilliant. Thank you very much.Behind The Curtain Theatre Productions: Thank you. ThankRuth West: Awesome.  

Transcription ended after 01:17:34

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